GOP Trouble?

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GOP Trouble?

Postby akiva » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:26 am

I wonder how bad of a sign is. It seems bad.
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Mike
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Mike » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:01 pm

Not a good sign, no. But Trump's approval rating has been pretty unwavering from the start, so it's hard to read. In my mind, things like this and the high-profile GOP defections from supporting him are signs of erosion that I think will reach a breaking point where the bottom falls out from under him in a rush. I think the GOP needs to focus their energy on keeping the Senate. The House is probably still lost to them, and whether or not Trump remains president beyond the election is mostly out of their control. But if they can keep the Senate, then they can prevent the Dems from doing anything meaningful for four years and then call this a rebuilding term. Heck if they still run the Senate but lose everything else, I wouldn't put it past McConnell to literally hold up federal justice appointments--including the Supreme Court--for a full four years.

But also, as soon as I start thinking like this, I have to chastise myself for having any sort of hope. Trump has an apparent stranglehold on his base, and 2016 taught me that my intuition is useless here.
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Phoebe » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:09 pm

I know what you mean; I don't know many Trump voters who have changed their minds. I do think four years ages the electorate a little bit - seems like nothing but it's a significant change especially in areas that have a lot of youth drain anyway - but it depends whether these young ones vote. My cousins are even deeper into actual psychosis over it, though I can tell they are "troubled" in some way by the suspicion that climate change isn't a hoax, and that it's weird to have to be mad at otherwise honorable, long-serving military. A tiny flicker of inner doubt, affirming their essential humanity, but not enough to stop hatin' the libs!
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Kyle » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:44 pm

Agreed to a large extent. I think Trump's going to get re-elected and I think it's going to be based on unspoken racism and xenophobia. There is no question in my mind that Trump is running on racist policies. People that support him are supporting those racist policies. Even if you say to yourself, "Well, I don't like Trump, but I REALLY don't like that Socialist on the other side"-- if you vote for Trump, then you're voting for racism and bigotry. You might not think of yourself as a racist and bigot, but you have to question why your are voting for a racist and bigot who you know is going to enact additional racist and bigoted policies.

And that's why I think he's going to get re-elected. Because the silent, racist, voting-majority is going to tie themselves in knots to explain why it's okay to vote for Trump-- a candidate who takes positions that would make Ronald Reagan vomit in Nancy's mouth-- and not for "some crazy-lib socialist." Because that's easier than actually examining the issues. And that's easier than to actually just admitting that brown people scare you. And that's easier than realizing you've failed as a human being that belongs in a society of other human beings.

Because people are weak.

And young people don't vote.

Trump will be re-elected.
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Phoebe » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:05 pm

It kills me that if young people under 35 voted in the same rates as older people, this wouldn't be an issue. Also knowing how many otherwise "good, normal" people are 100% ok with immigrants and non-white people being harmed, sometimes seriously, and always unjustly... it makes a person feel physically sick at times. It's disorienting, how much it destroys faith in people.
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Kyle » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:54 pm

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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Phoebe » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:41 am

Garrett , not specifically about the racism but including it as one of the many kinds of lawlessness and immorality we have recently seen stirred. Key quote that speaks to what you're saying about racism above:

"As Trumpism took hold in the nation in 2015, it was regarded as a kind of temporary madness. But time has revealed that this vulgar spirit is no aberration. It was there all along; the goodly veneer was the lie."

His concern then is, how do we go on from here? We can't just go back, pretending like one party and a good 40% of the electorate didn't do all of this and, in fact, absolutely love it! But how do we go forward knowing that 40% was never operating in good faith, never really cared to have a democracy if they could somehow get away with autocracy built on racism, sexism, and xenophobia?

In Federal government, of course, it's not just Trump; this anti-democracy move started long ago and for me is symbolized most powerfully by the unwillingness of the Republican Senate to affirm Merrick Garland. At that point we knew it was open war without regard for rules. In public life, the fact that it's incredibly rare for a jury to convict an officer of nearly any level of offense after egregiously unnecessary killings and beatings, even when captured on film, has been another obvious sign of the ever-present racist anger. In private life, my lifelong experience of racism and sexism has been just what you report; my dad and husband affirm it's even worse on the sexism side than I'm aware of.
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby poorpete » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:35 pm

My moderate GOP congressman voted against the inquiry pretty much because he's worried he'll be primary'd (he didn't support Trump in 2016 and never says his name in public). But candidates can file until April 2, so the chances that he'll speak up between now and the final vote are nil, and it's so weak and so disappointing to see.
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Re: GOP Trouble?

Postby Phoebe » Fri Nov 01, 2019 9:37 am

Tragic that they're falling along these partisan lines, even on the question of formally sanctioning the inquiry. It's not like a vote to convict. Trump has really destroyed the GOP, or whatever legitimacy as a political party it had left. I'm not exactly pleased with the Democrats either, but conspiring to elect Democrats in primaries over non-party-members, and turning a blind eye to Clinton's perverse behavior and Obama's broken campaign promises, are nowhere on a level with sanctioning the sale of our foreign policy and elections for the benefit of a tyrant.

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