Entering Runeforge

[Zen]

[Mike]

Is that base time? Because I'm allowed to cut that time in half if I'm willing to take a +5 penalty to DC. Which I am.

[Bluedevyl]

Also, as a small edit to the loot list on the front page, can you move the Globe Of Invulnerability scroll from Sam to Anna? It's not on Sam's spell list.

[Tahlvin]

[Bluedevyl]

Not for nothing, but Anna is going to make a fire in the fireplace of the secure shelter and thaw the holy water, just in case.

[Zen]

Dothan... yes, those are base times, so the Snakeskin tunic would take 6 days and the +2 amulet to +3 would take 2.5...

As for the cloak of resistance, I would posit that Kay's saving throws are probably lower, at least for Fortitude and Will... (And she seems to choke whenever a there's dragon breath and she could avoid damage entirely with a good reflex save... A cloak of resistance wouldn't help a roll of 1....) But, for the record, her saves are:

Fort: 3
Reflex: 12
Will: 7

(Also, Mike: the link to her sheet is on the 2nd page of the "important Links" thread, if you could update the first post...)

I'm also pretty sure Hal wanted to trade in his +2 Belt of Giant Strength for the +4 one. Whether he wants to put the +2 one into "party treasure" or sell it himself, is up to him... (Lawful Good... make a guess...)

[bralbovsky]

Without exception, I think Hal has the most advantaged saves. A charisma boost would enhance that further, so I suggest Kay gets the cloak.

I got lost on the math as far as the net gain with the celestial armor, but let's keep it in mind. I found going with the celestial plate, even though it took a while to trade up, solved a lot of my armor issues.

[Zen]

[bralbovsky]

I would suggest that they stack, partly because they are not a passive bonus. They only work if you move. So you're absolutely not throwing your money away. I don't get to decide, but that's how I read it.

Take the cloak. I'll try to get someone to make a bandolier of natural armor or resistance or something. (Hal is shopping for the necklace of adaptation. Black Magga and other submerged baddies on his list, besides it guards against other environmental effects too)

[bralbovsky]

Not to add yet another layer, I also suggest that we have a frank discussion of what we think our sins are.
I was trying to think of ways to transmogrify the sins (even took a pitiful stab at redesigning the icons) into virtues.
Greed/charity, sloth/industry, etc
The seven traits have broken down sort of along magical concentrations, and if someone is wrathful or prideful he might be particularly vulnerable in that part of the place. It would be worthwhile to anticipate what might await us. We could even begin to formulate some questions for the peacock pen. I'm glad we didn't sell it.

[Zen]

Well... Kay would probably fit under some combination of lust and pride...

[Tahlvin]

First post update: I gave the cloak to Kay, the belt to Hal, moved the half-plate to the SELL pile since Dwyn doesn't want it, and added Thor's unused items to the SELL pile. If anyone else has items that want to add to the party SELL pile, just let me know. Or you're welcome to sell them yourself and use the money for your own needs.

[Eliahad]

Illian's sin is pride. He refused to ask for help and while he thinks his disregard for his own safety is benevolence, and it is, there is a certain pride in trying to always go out in a blaze of glory.

[Mike]

So... no one wants an airship?

80 miles a day. Carries 30 tons of loot. No crew required. All the benefits of boats without the need for water. I know a guy who can get us one for 50 grand.

[Eliahad]

[bralbovsky]

I'm warming to the airship idea, although that's two sets of celestial armor for Kay.
Hal will of course do whatever the group decides
My (meta) stipulations: It must look like an immense dragon, or maybe a realistic cloud. We have a reliable and entertaining henchman or AI to pilot it. Transfer from ground to air and air to ground (parcels and passengers) is not a drag or too risky.

Pride turns to Camaraderie, I think. So if I were constructing an ur-virtue Runewell, the spells/feats here would all be organizational and cooperative.
There's nothing wrong with ambition, right? It's the selfishness part that turns it bad. Our group isn't concerned about our rep so we can get free concert tickets, it's so that folks know they can trust us to help them. We don't accept medals or keys to the city as rewards, but focus instead on gearing for what's next. This reformed runewell might not conform so nicely with the PF magic schools, but aren't there 8 of those anyway?

[Zen]

Airship thoughts: Hey, if it means I never have to set foot on a boat again, I'm all for it!

Kay would like to trade in the following items for credit toward the work she needs done on her Snakeskin Tunic or cash to purchase the Dancing Scarves she wants to buy, which ever comes first... But she is happy to put them into the "Party Sell" pile and claim their value in GP in credit to be used when there is time available to upgrade her tunic or she is able to find the Scarves to purchase...

Wand of Shocking Grasp (25 charges) (350 sale value)
Wand of Magic Missile (25 charges) (350 sale value)
Wand of Magic Missile CL3 (41 charges) (1371 gp 9 sp 5 cp sale value)
+1 Keen Dagger (4151 gp sale value)

Total value: 6,222 gp 9 sp 5 cp

Also, I realized that I was making errors on the cost of the items I want enhanced! Kay's Snakeskin Tunic will only cost 6,000 gp to enhance, because it is HALF the cost to craft the item. 12,000 gp is the DIFFERENCE in the cost of the two, not the cost... And enhancing an Amulet of Natural Armor from +2 to +3 would cost 5,000... Not sure why I was putting the full cost... EDIT: I was wrong... the amulet would be 5000...

At that point, it is probably a good idea to buy a lesser form of Dancing Scarves as well and have Anna enhance them further... (Does Anna also have the ability to speed up her crafting the same way as Dothan, or is that a Bard thing?) So, I could buy either +1 or +2 scarves, or maybe even just buy plain old scarves and have Anna make them magical herself. (But I'd rather have her working on Illian's and my swords than armor... but, you know... I wouldn't mind nicer armor...) So, if I got +2 Dancing Scarves, they would cost 4,300. That's well within my budget... which, from my early calculations, without donations, is 9702 gp 4 sp...

So, if I buy +2 Dancing Scarves I would have 5,402 gp 4 sp remaining. If I could borrow 600 gp from someone to have Dothan upgrade my Snakeskin Tunic, I'd be very happy... But I'm sure I'll have that much once we sell the magical items and Dragon we are selling, right? We have not idea how much an Ancient White Dragon will bring in...

But, the cost to increase the Dancing Scarves from +2 to +3 would be, strangely enough, IDENTICAL to the price of upgrading the Amulet of Natural Armor from +2 to +3: 2,500 and, technically, 5 days, but 2.5 days if casting is accelerated. Meanwhile, the cost of taking a +1 Keen weapon to a +1 Keen Agile weapon is 5,000 gp and 10 days or 5 days accelerated... So, these are basically my Crafting wish list once I purchase my +2 Dancing Scarves, if I can find +2 Dancing Scarves...

If +2 Dancing Scarves are NOT available, we'll revisit the whole armor equation with what IS available... I hope that AT LEAST we can find some Masterwork Dancing Scarves that can be enhanced... (If that's the case, we might as well go for the whole +3 package... 4,500 gp and 9 days, or 4.5 accelerated. As far as I can tell, Illian's swords are only +1 swords, correct? So adding Agile to them is only a +2 addition... So that makes it 3,000 gp per sword and 6 days per sword, or 3 accelerated, so a total of 6,000 gp and 6 days accelerated... So... If we could buy the Dancing Scarves in Riddleport and were travelling to Korvosa (see below) Anna could easily finish Illian's Swords shortly after we got on the boat. (16 days overland travel to get to Riddleport, 1/4 Crafting time 4 days of work. Assuming Accelerated crafting, 1 sword done and one 1/3 of the way done.) Then we get on the boat and, I'll say it's about 16 days, rounding up generously (really it should take a little under 13), so 4 more days of crafting time... Illian's second weapon could be done then, with two days of time to work on other things.

If the scarves are indeed +2 when we buy them, then they will be almost done. It will probably take a day or two to shop in the new city and Dothan will probably want to hang around long enough to perform in a tavern or two to develop her reputation in a new part of Varisia, so that should give her time to finish the Scarves...

Then my sword can go into the que... right?

Or she can start working on other people's armor... Or adding pluses to weapons... we shouldn't let travel time go unused... Kay should probably add Craft Magical Arms and Armor so she can help, but she'll need to get a wand of whatever she's going to assist with for the spell, because her spells are very limited...

If we were going OVERLAND to Korsova, we would go right PAST Riddleport and could see about picking up the scarves there with a quick side trip by a couple of people on mounts who could easily catch up with the rest of the party after the trip into town to purchase things... Then we could all have about 17 days worth of crafting time. So, even without Accelerated Crafting that gives Anna time to do Illian's two swords (12 days) and complete the Scarves (5 days)... With Accelerated crafting, and some serious borrowing of cash, Dothan could easily complete the upgrade to the Snakeskin Tunic (6 days) and several Amulets of Natural Armor upgrades. (Up to 4 from +2 to +3, 2.5 days each, or more if people still have +1 versions they want to take to +2, 1,500 gp and 1.5 days accelerated...)

And I could buy as many more special arrows and durable arrow making supplies as we can find in Riddleport and make durable special arrows until the cows come home...

Anyway, I'd highly suggest Dancing Scarves for anyone who doesn't wear armor. It has no armor check penalty or Arcane Spell Failure, after all. You just have to move around while using it... It seems like a good idea...

I think it's probably a good idea to do some provisioning before we head into the Runeforge. El is just about out of special arrows and there's all this Dragon Hoard treasure to spend, so...

Let's have Anna go teleport a wagon or three here, conjure up some mounts to pull them, load up the treasure, well covered, of course, as well as the dragon, and head off to sell and buy stuff. If we want a bigger city, we should probably think about heading to Korvosa. It's closer than Absalom by a good margin. However, and Kay hates to admit this, the easiest way to get there would most likely be by boat... (Could we take the Dragon carcass on a boat?)

The questions:
1. How long would it take to get there by wagon? (If my calculation of the overland distance is correct: 750 miles, and the terrain, mostly trackless plains, going by the route that is that long, but a little bit of hilly and forest...) I calculate the time would by about 68 days...

2. How long would it take by... gulp... boat? Well, if I figured the distance by water correctly, we would have to travel by land for about 60 miles over trackless plains, which would take about 5 days by wagon. Then we'd have to hire a boat and load it, probably a day or two in Brinewall, but we could have a couple of people ride ahead on horses that are faster than the wagon and arrange for that. Actually, it wouldn't be a bad idea for, say, Dothan, Kay, Hal, and Dwyn to do that. (Face and Muscle) They would get there in 2 days, giving Dothan one day to negotiate a boat, then two days of unrestricted crafting time to work on, oh, I don't know, Kay's snakeskin shirt. Kay could also work on some arrows for Eldthor during all three days, as she wouldn't really be needed for the negotiations... (Not the diplomat, but she needs to be there so she isn't traveling without the snakeskin...) In any event, the trip from Brinewall to Korvosa looks to be aroung 1080 miles by sea, which would take about 22.5 days in a sailing ship. So, it would take a total of a bout 28 days or so to go by sea via Brinewall, hopefully... Call it 30 to be safe.

If we wanted to go through Riddleport, to check out the markets in the third largest city in the region and see what is available in to purchase in the less reputable side of Varisia. Other than Kay wanting to wear a disguise, it would only take a couple more days total, according to my calculations... I'm calculating about 16 day s overland to Riddleport, then a smaller number of days via boat from Riddleport due to it being closer. (About 12.5, around 600 miles.) So it would be around 29 days, make it 31 to be safe. But we'd have to go through a pretty tough town with A LOT of loot... That could be dangerous. Not that we can't handle ourselves. We might be able to get passage on larger ships out of Riddleport that go faster as well... I don't know if that's the case...

3. Just go to Magnamar and do our new city trip some other time, the trip isn't that much shorter than to go to Korvosa, frankly, at least overland... It is about 480 miles, with about half of it rough terrain. It would take about 50 days by my reckoning. By boat through Brinewall, i'm guessing it is about the same distance, 480 miles over sea, but much faster. The same 5 days to get to Brinewall, then a 10 day boat ride to Magnamar, so 15 days. That would be a more reasonable shopping expedition, but we already know what we can buy there... However, we also know we can sell dragon parts there and they know us, so there are some advantages. We could also take a day trip to Sandpoint or teleport to the library for research if needed...

[Bluedevyl]

So, a heavy wagon is 100 gp and will hold 4,000 pounds of materiel. We may need more than 1 in order to haul all of this stuff.

The wagon itself is 10 ft by 20 ft, so it will likely NOT hold the dragon corpse. We will probably need to buy or build a VERY large sled in order to move that.

How is everyone's handle animal skill? We might need to summon an ox or two to pull the dragon corpse.

Also, Anna will look for a scroll of Communal Mount in Magnimar in order to not burn ALL her 1st level spells every day summoning horses.

[Zen]

Well, we might have to take the dragon apart prior to loading it onto carts...

How many bags of holding do we own? How many Handy Haversacks? Why am I asking? Here's the idea:

We can decrease the weight of our loot by sending Anna to Magnamar with bags of coins to exchange for larger denominations.

Coins are 50 to the pound.

1 bag of holding will hold 250 lb = 12,500 coins
1 handy haversack will hold 80 lb = 4,000 coins

So, if we filled one bag of holding with all 9,410 sp and 3,090 cp it would be at capacity. They should be able to fit in 30 cubic feet.
If converted to gp, that would be 971.9 (so there'd be 9 sp left) If we could convert them to pp, we would have 97 pp 1 gp 9 sp

Now, let's look at full bags of copper: 12,500 cp = 125 gp = 12 pp 5 gp

How about haversacks: 4,000 cp = 40 gp = 4 pp

So, if we empty all of the bags of holding and haversacks in an orderly manner and fill them with silver and copper, then any gold that we can fit if we thing platinum conversion is likely (not sure how easily getting platinum pieces is) then we send it off, we can reduce the overall weight of the loot considerably. In addition, if we're doing our shopping there, Anna could deposit the coinage there with the merchant and tell them we are on the way to spend it? Or do we not trust them?

I'm pretty sure we have at least two bags of holding, right? I know there are at least four or five haversacks... We'll call it that for now...

OK, let's reverse it and go for maximum shrinkage of coinage and start with the copper:

39,500 cp, 9,410 sp, 3,500 gp 250 pp = 52,460 coins = 1,049.2 lb (a little over four bags of holding.)
Two bags of holding with 12,500 coins each: 25,000 cp = 250gp = 25 pp

14,500 cp, 9,410 sp 3,500 gp 250 pp
Five hand haversacks with 4,000 coins each: 14,500 cp 5,550 sp = 700 gp = 70 pp

if we have a sixth haversack (Dothan can make one in a day, right? For that matter, she can make a bag of holding in a little more than a day, or maybe a bag of holding II that will hold more?), we can take the rest of the sp and some gp: 3,910 sp 89 gp = 48 ppp (leaving it one short of a full load to get an even amount for exchange.)
0 cp 0 sp 3,411 gp 250 pp

So now our weight, if we get pp is:

3411 gp 275 pp = 73.72 lb of coins. Fits in 1 bag of holding.

Then she can bring back the bags and haversacks, we can reload them with the stuff that goes in them, and load up the wagons with a little less than a half ton LESS to travel with, and go.

How much DOES a dragon weigh? If it weighs less than 1,500 lb, it surely will fit in 250 cubic feet, right? Why not make a Bag of Holding IV and shove the dragon in it? We can sell the bag of holding at cost. We have the gold RIGHT HERE!

[Mike]

Handle Animal +30.

Crafting requires we shop to buy the correct materials first.